tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post8749508393757142246..comments2023-10-15T04:22:36.206-04:00Comments on paralepsis: Radical misreading: Kairosfocus on Saul AlinskyHermagorashttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-53032883618218537922011-05-29T14:50:54.292-04:002011-05-29T14:50:54.292-04:00Asked whether he considered becoming a communist, ...Asked whether he considered becoming a communist, Alinsky said, <br /><br />"Not at any time. I've never joined any organization—not even the ones I've organized myself. I prize my own independence too much. <b>And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it's Christianity or Marxism.</b> One of the most important things in life is what Judge Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-56028219237747658492011-05-29T14:20:44.741-04:002011-05-29T14:20:44.741-04:00kairosfocus, I take issue with your comment at UD ...kairosfocus, I take issue with your <a href="http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/why-dont-christians-speak-up-a-few-reasons-as-if-reality-mattered/#comment-382282" rel="nofollow">comment</a> at UD that I have tried "to portray [you] as an ignoramus." You should at least have the courtesy to link to this post before distorting what I have written, since I <b>explicitly Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-90550135702735010932011-05-29T13:52:39.940-04:002011-05-29T13:52:39.940-04:00I have made two further posts on this issue.I have made <a href="http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/2011/05/kairosfocus-heres-deal.html" rel="nofollow">two</a> <a href="http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/2011/05/distortions-of-kairosfocus-why-they.html" rel="nofollow">further</a> posts on this issue.Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-23840587233583823842011-05-29T13:45:52.490-04:002011-05-29T13:45:52.490-04:00Using the same tactics as you, I could identify Al...Using the same tactics as you, I could identify Alinksy as a "neo-Christian" from that same page. Observe: <br /><br />"This raises the question: what, if any, is my ideology? The prerequisite for an ideology is possession of a basic truth. . . . Christians . . . begin with their prime truth: the divinity of Christ and the tripartite nature of God. Out of these 'prime truths&Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-79185161230393270882011-05-29T13:39:34.475-04:002011-05-29T13:39:34.475-04:00kairosfocus, as to page 10 of Rules for Radicals, ...kairosfocus, as to page 10 of <i>Rules for Radicals</i>, I go back and forth. Your distortion of that passage is obvious, as you quote him to make him seem like he's saying he's a Marxist at that time <b>when he his clearly saying no such thing</b>. As I have said elsewhere, the question of whether Alinsky was a Marxist of any stripe is debatable, but the question of whether he was Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-49024270729191465752011-05-29T13:24:12.655-04:002011-05-29T13:24:12.655-04:00DK:
Kindly, note, that I will not find someone to...DK:<br /><br />Kindly, note, that <i>I will not find someone to be lying unless I have specific warrant.</i> <br /><br />Understand, too, that such lying <i>includes</i> willful deception whereby one says what one knows or SHOULD know is false and misleading or true but a half truth. In the current case, that is what is demonstrably going on; as I have <a href="http://www.uncommondescent.com/GEM of The Kairos Initiativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622199013789009422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-16534486790895058652011-05-29T11:41:30.194-04:002011-05-29T11:41:30.194-04:00Give me a break. kairosfocus, you have accused oth...Give me a break. kairosfocus, you have accused others of lying dozens of times to my knowledge, and certainly many times more. Your typical strategy is to talk about how making that accusation causes you great pain. From this I conclude that you must be in constant agony.Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-69882822643853794842011-05-29T11:37:55.195-04:002011-05-29T11:37:55.195-04:00"a man who has risked life and career on issu..."a man who has risked life and career on issues of truth and justice"? <br /><br />Cue the tiny violins. I have seen no evidence for this beyond your own testimony.Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-76878238531305381832011-05-29T10:35:29.641-04:002011-05-29T10:35:29.641-04:00Oh KF, do you want a hand with that crown of thorn...Oh KF, do you want a hand with that crown of thorns? I'd semi-quasi-pseudo weasel back to UD if I were you.<br /><br />PS - The world still waits for a CSI calculation.Rich Hugheshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18037140349297065008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-76721813161293831262011-05-29T09:49:18.137-04:002011-05-29T09:49:18.137-04:00PS: Observe how easily, without any reasonable jus...PS: Observe how easily, without any reasonable justification, I -- a man who has risked life and career on issues of truth and justice -- am being branded a liar. Is this not exactly the point, per Alinsky: <i>"One acts decisively only in the conviction that all the angels are on one side and all the devils on the other."</i>GEM of The Kairos Initiativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622199013789009422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-44315873295119350412011-05-29T09:16:25.628-04:002011-05-29T09:16:25.628-04:00To bring on this reformation requires that the org...To bring on this reformation requires that the organizer work inside the system, among not only the middle class but the 40 per cent of American families - more than seventy million people - whose income range from $5,000 to $10,000 a year (in 1971). They cannot be dismissed by labeling them blue collar or hard hat. They will not continue to be relatively passive and slightly challenging. If we GEM of The Kairos Initiativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622199013789009422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-23591385844855648902011-05-29T09:16:13.738-04:002011-05-29T09:16:13.738-04:00F/N: Just for the record, so onlookers can see for...F/N: Just for the record, so onlookers can see for themselves, just how a red herring strawman ad hominem game is being played, just as Alinsky taught:<br /><br />________________<br /><br />>> Rules for Radicals<br /><br />by Saul D. Alinsky<br /><br />A Pragmatic Primer for Realistic Radicals<br /><br />Prologue<br /><br /><br /><i><b>The</b> Revolutionary force</i> [notice where he GEM of The Kairos Initiativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622199013789009422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-38212851466804472502011-05-28T13:38:44.695-04:002011-05-28T13:38:44.695-04:00"kairosfocus is not stupid, and I do not beli...<i>"kairosfocus is not stupid, and I do not believe he is lying."</i><br /><br />I would argue his posts at Uncommonly Dense beg to differ on both counts.Lou FCDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13975892485240863279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-15981523947426466482011-05-27T22:46:10.743-04:002011-05-27T22:46:10.743-04:00I see kairosfocus has retreated to the safe territ...I see kairosfocus has <a href="http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/mathgirrl-returns-an-entire-blog-is-now-devoted-to-complaining-about-uncommon-descent/#comment-381972" rel="nofollow">retreated</a> to the safe territory of Uncommon Descent, where I cannot comment (this on a thread devoted to defending UD's moderation policy). <br /><br />As to the substance of your comments --Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-40205798804225257762011-05-27T20:10:11.615-04:002011-05-27T20:10:11.615-04:00Note to others posting here: please refer to kairo...Note to others posting here: please refer to kairosfocus by his internet handles, not his real name. In the interests of courtesy, I'll delete posts that use his real name. Thanks.Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-35796608363528128762011-05-27T20:06:57.986-04:002011-05-27T20:06:57.986-04:00Kairosfocus, the link in your second comment is re...Kairosfocus, the link in your second comment is redundant, as I provided the same link in my first sentence. <br /><br />Your use of the quote from page 10 is clearly distortion, since it seeks to ally Alinsky with precisely a position from which he distinguishes himself in the very passage. He is talking about ideological (i.e., Marxist or Christian) views vs. pragmatic ones. I'm sorry Hermagorashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15863777697055352607noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-16261088608599124732011-05-27T19:51:38.239-04:002011-05-27T19:51:38.239-04:00PPS: Here are the rules I particularly object to a...PPS: Here are the rules I particularly object to as illustrating just what will destroy civil society and pave the way for polarisation, hate and oppression should those shapes by this sort of thinking gain real power:<br /><br />_____________<br /><br />>> 1. "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." [priority on power not justice, and not on GEM of The Kairos Initiativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622199013789009422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-72679076089254466362011-05-27T19:35:20.115-04:002011-05-27T19:35:20.115-04:00PS: I should add a link to my actual remarks, so o...PS: I should add a <a href="http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/mathgirrl-returns-an-entire-blog-is-now-devoted-to-complaining-about-uncommon-descent/comment-page-1/#comment-381935" rel="nofollow">link</a> to my actual remarks, so onlookers can see what I actually said, which identified Alinsky as neo-marxist and speaks of cultural subversion as his method to his version of the GEM of The Kairos Initiativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622199013789009422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36818451.post-20447812371701982312011-05-27T19:28:23.027-04:002011-05-27T19:28:23.027-04:00Please
You will note my observation that Alinsky ...Please<br /><br />You will note my observation that Alinsky was a <b>neo-Marxist</b>, i.e. similar to Gramsci and the Frankfurt School. <br /><br />I find in your quote no reason to infer that he was not a neo-marxist whose advocacy was about community subversion per his infamous amoral rules.<br /><br />I note that though you cite it your discussion does not go on to the rest of what he had to GEM of The Kairos Initiativehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10622199013789009422noreply@blogger.com